No Trades = Best Move
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  1. kvin2
    kvin2
    Posts: 46

    Posted 02/12/2010 1:32 AM

    KP has said he probably won't make a trade before the trade deadline. He's said "We're going to give two, three, four players for one [big man]. I know those players mean more to us than that trade." (Here's the article: http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/02/trail_blazers_insider_kevin_pr.html) I think this is honestly the best move for us in the long term. Let's face it, we CANNOT win a championship this year. Anyone who says differently is just doesn't understand the game. We've lost both our Centers for the rest of the year, three rookies have seen significant playing time this year, and our 6th man from last year hasn't played a minute this year, and we only got our best perimeter defender back in uniform two weeks ago. Most trades involve one of three player groups: unnamed players still signed to their rookie contracts (see article), Blake/Outlaw, or Batum/Rudy. It basically boils down to the fact that mortgaging the future for ONE HALF OF A SEASON for ONE big man is NOT worth it. Look at it this way: we can either make a trade, and trade ESSENTIAL parts of our rotation for a big man, or wait till next season and get one of the best 1-2 Center combos in the NBA for FREE. Look at it this way: every team changes every year. Teams have free agents that come and go, they draft new players, and they make trades in the offseason. Then in the preseason and in the first few months or so of the regular season, they see how everyone plays with each other, and then settle on a rotation. That rotation will fluctuate to account for injuries to players and depending on how players perform throughout the season. However, those changes are usually pretty minor (a sprained ankle here and there, one guy stops giving any effort, etc.). The players settle into their roles, and be come comfortable with each other. (You know, the good teams at least.) If we made a trade for a big man, not only would we be getting rid of KEY and ESSENTIAL rotation players for both THIS and NEXT year, we would be adding in a totally new player for the old players to get used to. You'd then be asking the team to go through a process that takes 2-3 months for teams to go through, AND THEN be ready for the playoffs and perform. It's not worth it.
    I am a fan of B-Roy changing EVERYTHING.
  1. Posted 02/12/2010 5:43 AM

    kvin2, ... you are exactly right, .. good post, ... a trade for a big would cost the Blazers a draft pick or two, ... and several players that are vital to the Team's "Chemistry" for this year, .. and into next season. 

    With Joel, G.O., B.Roy, out of action, .. the Team's "Chemistry" has changed again as the Blazers have been seeking to redefine their individual 'roles' and game-time contributions to the 48 minute effort.

    Would be better to help Joel & G.O. to work together in the Rehab process, while they review some game film & video together, ... amidst the Team's plans for this upcoming summer and pre-season games.  Rehab is no picnic, ... so everyone involved, ... is very serious at this point.
    I am a fan of Good to see the Blazers developing a "total" team game, under the watchful eyes of Kevin Pritchard and Nate McMillan.
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 02/12/2010 12:04 PM

    I must say I disagree. The first thing we need is a trade. With Trav and Roy returning very soon, we will have a fully healthy team outside of our centers. We saw through the first 2 months of the season how terrible and inconsistent we played, because we had TOO much talent and there just isn't enough minutes to play a 10-11 man rotation and the player roles were not defined.

    Right now, we currently have 4 point guards and 2 shooting guards vying for playing time, when we really only need 4 total guards in all, plus we have Marty who can play the 2 as well. Also, once Trav comes back, we will have a logjam at the 3 position.

    The trades being discussed are not just short-term fixes. I've heard both Tyrus and Haywood. If we got either and they worked out this year, I'm sure we would do everything in our power to re-sign them, since we would hold their Bird rights. Also, we can't really put all our money in the Oden and Joel pot, since either player hasn't been able to stay consistently healthy throughout an 82 game season so we will need a 3rd center next year regardless for insurance purposes.

    Finally, by being too deep, it messes up our team chemistry. Rudy has been reported of being upset and bolted to the locker room after being pulled in the 4th quarter, which is his 2nd documented unhappiness, with the first being after we reportedly signed Hedo Turkoglu and he complained through his agent. If we can turn a couple two or three assets into one player who fills a need, more power to KP!

    It's all about making the playoffs this year, as the Lotto really doesn't help us out. Lets get a trade that makes us better this year and in the future!
    I am a fan of
  1. Hg
    Hg
    Posts: 60

    Posted 02/12/2010 12:50 PM

    I do believe that no move is the best move. KP said himself that it takes 50 games to get the synergy and we only have 27 left, so maybe, just maybe a rent a center may give us more rebounds in the remaining 27 games, but I don't believe he could or would make a difference whether or not we make the play-offs. With or without a rent a center we more then likely would not make it to the championship round or the finals. well at least the finals. for as much as I hate to say it the L*kers are in the drivers seat.

    hg
    I am a fan of
  1. BR7_Fan
    BR7_Fan
    Posts: 399

    Posted 02/12/2010 1:37 PM

    Right now i'm in the middle, I can see us not doing a trade and just weather the last 27 games and what happens, happens. OR we be aggressive and get a center and clear out our log jams at the 2 and 3 spots and possibly play the way the team was built and maybe improve or playoff standings and go deeper into the playoffs. I trust in KP to make the right call there. Personally, I won't be offended if Blake, Rudy, or Outlaw were traded for a center or PF
    I am a fan of RIP CITY > LOB CITY
  1. Dennis1984
    Dennis1984
    Posts: 2

    Posted 02/12/2010 3:26 PM

    Everyone always wants a quick fix. However this team is young and needs to gel. Portland always sends away a player right before he becomes a threat and other teams reap the benefits of waiting till Portland trades away a key player. Ride out the tough times and soon enough the team will get going in the right direction again. Dont trade away all this young talent that will pay off in the end.
    I am a fan of Aldridge Averaging a double double this season!!! Go blazers
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 02/12/2010 6:18 PM

    Having young talent is one thing, but to have too much young talent and not do anything with it, is another.  We have Bayless, Rudy, Batum, and Dante are our best young assets in my opinion (Roy and LA are proven and Greg isn't being moved). We also have players like Webster and Outlaw and Miller who are good players in this league that can step up if one of our younger players gets dealt.

    Hypothetically speaking, say we deal Rudy, and Blake for Haywood. I have no doubt in my mind that Webster and Bayless will more than fill in the voids left from Rudy and Blake. We have so many players that need and deserve minutes, its rediculous. I'm not talking about making a deal to "Rent-a-Player", but a deal that is a long term fix. This team needs a consolidation trade in the worst way and if we just stand pat and get everyone healthy, our team chemistry could take a hit because everyone wants to play. So if we never move our young assets, they will eventually get frustrated with a lack of playing time and either leave via free agency or demand a trade and when a player makes it known they want out, it really diminishes their trade value.

    Also, as much as I love our young players, we can hope they live up to their potential but there is also a good chance they don't even live up to the hype and we could miss the bus on using them as major trading chips in landing someone proven.

    Finally, we have young assets stashed overseas. If we deal Patty, don't freak out because we have Petteri Koponen..if we deal Jeff Pendergraph, don't fret, we have Joel Freeland, and if we trade away Rudy, don't have a heart attack, we have fellow Spaniard Viktor Claver. Also, we have yet another 1st round pick coming in this June as well.

    The name of the game is not just stockpiling as much talent as possible. Its about finding a core 5-6 players and surrounding them with solid role players who rise to the challenge when called upon.

    This season is not lost and if we can make a move that doesn't completely throw away the future and it helps us advance a round in the playoffs, that playoff experience is invaluable to the future success of the team.

    I am a fan of
  1. ClydeFrog
    ClydeFrog
    Posts: 975

    Posted 02/12/2010 6:26 PM

    I too am in the make a trade camp. I really would like us to deal Rudy while his trade value is semi-high. I don't think his situation is really all that close to Drazen Petrovic either, as Peto was much more efficient during his tenure than Rudy. If we don't cash in on some of these young players now, by the time we find out if we should have moved them or not, it could be too late.
    When it comes down to trades, you don't make a move, just to make a move. You make a trade to improve your team right away and in the long run. I just hope KP finds that right player, because a guy like Brandon is very close to hitting he prime and he needs another star to play along side of him.
    I will say this though: Do not trade Batum, unless we are getting a CP3 type player and try your best to keep Bayless, because we really need his points in the paint.
    I am a fan of Watching Elliot Williams Take Flight!
  1. Aaron Page
    Aaron Page
    Posts: 4

    Posted 02/12/2010 9:19 PM

    I would agree with no trades being the best move at this point. We have made it this far into the season, and only have 27 games left with the majority of our schedule behind us obviously. I say wait until next year. I hate to say this but we really never know how players are going to be over the summer and through training camp. Oden has two new knees (that kills me to say that) but he may be healthy. Joel is coming back and in my opinion and I am not just saying this because I'm a die hard blazer fan, but he is the most undervalued big man in the NBA today. We are playing great ball now, if we had Joel's presence with the way our guards have been performing, we'd be right up there in the race for 2nd (not saying that's not an option this Blazer team is unpredictable) but I say give it one more year, then we should adjust if things aren't working, but I really feel this is a great young blazer team. Just my two cents. Thanks for reading all.
    I am a fan of feeling like martell is playing due to family ties with the coaches son :-)
  1. KingKoopa
    KingKoopa
    Posts: 56

    Posted 02/13/2010 12:13 AM

    I agree to the not-making-a-trade-just-to-make-a-trade idea, and I also agree that shipping out a few good assets just for a temporary fix is a bad idea, but if there is a trade to be made out there that helps us now AND in the long run, we are fools not to make it. I love this Blazers team as much as anyone, but I agree with Hawes that holding on to all our assets for their potential might cause us massive disruptions down the road. Talented youth eventually becomes talented vets, and they will not all be willing to sit on the bench while Roy, Aldridge, and (hopefully) Oden are leading the team and playing 35-40 minutes a night. And as much as it's been proven lately that we are a rudder-less ship without Roy, I definitely see the value in giving up a couple of pieces now to get a solid #2/backup #1 guy if we can do it (cuz, as has been proven lately, Alridge ain't it.)

    C'mon KP, don't be a homer! I know you love our youth and potential, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!
    I am a fan of Marcus Camby! :)
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 02/14/2010 12:39 AM

    I just fear if we hold onto everyone we will end up like the Chicago Bulls earlier this decade. They had so much talent and young talent at that, yet refused to package any of it to upgrade.

    The 04-05 Bulls just went 47-35, and made it back to the playoffs for the first time since winning it all in 98, essentially the first time in six fulls seasons. They eventually lost in 6 games. Sound familiar?

    But, they had talent stocked at all positions. Kirk Hinrich was a budding, 24 year old 2nd year point guard, with averages of 16 points, 6 assists, and 4 rebounds. Not only was he the floor general, but he was awarded with being named to the All-Defense team as well. As you can see here, his point production really fell off of the map in 07-08, down to 11 and his while assists dropped to under 4.5 the past year and a half.

    Chicago had a remarkable draft the summer before, taking Ben Gordon 3rd overall and trading a next year's first for the Suns lottery pick and nabbing Luol Deng. Both players did not disappoint. Deng was viewed as the next big thing at the small forward slot while Gordon finished 2nd in the NBA Rookie of the Year voting. Gordon was a scoring machine, dropping 15.1 in his rookie year, and maintaining a 18 ppg career average and peaking in last year's memorable playoffs against Boston, scoring 24.3 a night. Ben was a great pick and should have been valued highly by the Bull's organization, yet they messed with him during contract extensions and burnt bridges, which has lead him to take his act to rival Detroit.

    Deng was exactly what any team would have wanted out of the 3 spot on the floor. He had a high bball iq, length, athleticism, and an ability to score the ball. Not only that, but he continually showed progression through his first 3 years, before injuries have derailed him the past three seasons, causing him to miss a combined 83 games, not including the playoffs.

    The Bulls had their 1-3 spots set, but to win in the NBA, you must have bigs. Welcome Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler. Wait, I didn't just say Curry and Chandler as legit, young centers did I? Yes, I did. Curry was on the All-Star path after leading the Bulls in scoring with 16 points, yet an irregular heart beat caused him to miss the last 13 games of the 05 season and the entire playoffs. After failing to submit to more testing to see whether his condition was critical or long-term, both sides soured on one other, causing a trade to the Knicks where he currently can't even get any burn for a less than 20 win squad and his motivation for the game is in major question after letting his weight get the best of him.

    While not the offensive type, Chandler was definitely one of the brighter young defensive bigs in the game. During the 05 resurgence, he averaged a near double double, going for 10 points and 8 boards, with nearly 2 blocks a night and managed to improve or stay around those levels up until this year. He was dealt for PJ Bown and JR Smith (who was them moved for nothing) after signing a long extension and in hopes of clearing cap room for the signing of Ben Wallace.

    If that wasn't enough, the Bulls also had Argentinian Andres Nocioni, who was a hard-nosed energy player that did it all for the Bulls as was a fan favorite. Andres, like Luol, played the same position and showed the same progression for 3 years through the 06-07 season. Like Chandler, he signed a pretty lengthy and expensive deal over $38 million over 5 years.

    Excuse my rant about the Bulls, but their fans, like ours, were divided about what direction to take the team after that 05 season. Do they move a few of those parts of Kobe Bryant who was feuding with Lakers management at the time or do they let the cake bake and hope all of those players, none superstars, progress together and make multiple title runs as a team of good-great players.

    Bulls management decided to stick it out with their guys who got them there, and now look at Chicago. They grossly overpaid Nocioni, Hinrich, Chandler and Deng. A once promising Noc only returned them John Salmons at the deadline last year, and that was considered a coup. Hinrich now is arguably the worst starting point guard in the league and has lost all trust in his jump shot, apparently peaking at 26. Deng wouldn't have been overpaid if he didn't get hurt and now he too has lost his jumper. Chicago signed Chandler, who was putting up Przybilla type numbers to a 6 year deal worth around 10 million/season, while we got Joel for 5 years, 32 million. They got into off the court issues with Gordon and Curry causing them to get nothing really valuable in return for Curry and nothing at all from Gordon.

    Don't get me wrong, I have much more faith in this current Blazers management regime than past as well as the Bulls upper management staff, but I do see similarities. Our promising big man has had injuries derail his career to date. We have our own European fan favorite who plays the same position as the team's best player and we have started to shell out the dough to our young studs just off of their rookie contracts.

    That's where the similarities end. Portland now has to make sure to extend the right guys and trade the ones who won't live up to their potential away while the rest of the league still thinks they have potential and are on a reasonable contract. The worst possible move we could make it to hold onto all of these young assets and then time comes for a new contract and either they haven't showed all their potential yet and they are older, which means their value is diminished a bit around the league, but we don't want to lose them for nothing so we overpay. It is not an easy task to perform, but it is the nature of the game.
    I am a fan of
  1. Hopman27
    Hopman27
    Posts: 86

    Posted 02/14/2010 1:19 AM

    I totally agree with this.  After reading a few posts, I have seen a new point of view; it make sense to trade off a few players, since we have too many talents.  I've kinda noticed that, but I would like to keep the team the way it is.  No trades=best move.  Looking at the situation we are right now(no leader=Roy, and no dominate defense inside presence=Przybilla and Oden), the Blazers are having one heck of a time trying to win games.  Making the playoffs this year won't be easy.
    To me, though, with this situation we have right now, I find a positive in it.  If you look at our big three(for me, its Roy, Aldridge, and Oden), they are very important.  If I were to ask you guys to list the most famous players from above in order, I would suspect Roy, Oden, Aldridge.  With that said, the top two players are currently out, leaving Aldridge.  What that means is that right now, this is his time to shine.  This is his time to show not just everyone else, but himself, that he can take over games (kinda like Roy) and be dominating.  Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that Aldridge has to be super famous like lebron or kobe, but I am saying that there is no better time to step up his game than now.  If he can start doing that, hopefully he'll be consistent with it, and that'll help the blazers later on.  Also, with Billa and Oden out, Aldridge will have to learn how to be more aggressive and a bit more defensive.
      To add on, all this time that Roy has been out, if has kinda forced other players to try and step up their game.  If those other players can step up their game and be consistent with it when Roy comes back, you already know that Blazers will be dominating.
          Which could lead to the problem, where when Roy gets more playing time and others don't, they might not become happy.  But hopefully that won't be the situation, and that those players will be satisfied with their PT.

    So..... to put this all in a nutshell, with all these injuries, this is an opportunity for the team to learn how to play without their star players and all that stuff.
    And sorry, I wrote a lot.  I hope I kinda entertained you guys.  :)
    I am a fan of
  1. mario250775
    mario250775
    Posts: 197

    Posted 02/14/2010 12:41 PM

    I write short, I think that Portland need one good trade , I mean we need good center to reach the playoffs. So for me "one good trade= best move "  

    I am a fan of Portland Trail Blazers, RIP CITY !!!
  1. t bone
    t bone
    Posts: 27

    Posted 02/14/2010 11:55 PM

    I don't see a lot of benefit to picking up a big for a short term problem.  I do however see benefit to a trade if it means clearing up our logjams at PG and SF. 

    Nate does a great job at spreading out minutes but the downside is we often see hot players go to the bench and we don't have that 8 player rotation identified.  The only 2 players that have claimed their spots seem to be Roy and Aldridge.  The 2 headed center doesn't seem to be a jam either.  But we have Miller, Rudy, Travis, Martell, Bayless, Batum and Blake all bringing different examples of why the deserve more minutes at the 2 remaining slots.  Trying to get 7 player tiem to get in a groove with their team when they are sharing 48 minutes at 2 spots is just not realistic.

    I like all of them and can make a solid case to myself why we should keep each guy but the reality is we lose some games because it takes too long to dial in the right formula for our opponent that night.

    Do we need to trade, no but I do think we need to reduce the rotation to 8 or 9 guys to settle into our playoff run.  And for those guys who aren't going to be part of our 9 man rotation, THey are too talented to sit on a deep bench.  I would like to see them get their chance to shine even if it is somewhere else.

    My 9 man roster would look like:

    Miller, Roy, Batum, Aldridge Oden (next year),
    Bayless, Rudy, Outlaw, Joel

    With deep bench of
    Howard, Pendergraph, CUnningham

    I really like Martell and it is a tough call between him and Rudy but Rudy brings more shooting power, better floor vision, the same open court defense tenacity and some veteran style savvy.

    I really like Blake too and frankly prefer him to Miller because he is not the shot clock liability Andre can be.  Ultimately though Bayless is the PG of the future and Miller mentors Bayless's areas of development better.
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