Small Ball
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/08/2013 7:31 PM

    This team is seriously built to run. Talk about exploiting mismatches! It's going to be painful to double team anybody including the bench. Stotts has a lot of combinations to throw at teams now. I think we'll see 2 guards with Wes at the 3 and Nic at the 4 with LA in the post at times. Glad to see all our young bigs headed to big man camp Sunday. If Meyers, Thomas and Joel make defensive progress we won't give up layups all night. Man it's going to be fun to watch! How many lineups can you imagine from the 15 man roster? Last season I could list 1. Take any starter and build a roster around him. Nic can play 3 positions. Claver can play 3 positions. Small ball lineup example:

    Mo Williams pt

    Damian Lillard 2grd

    Wes Mathews SF

    Nic Batum PF

    LaMarcus Aldridge C

     

    or

    Lillard 1

    CJ 2

    Wright 3

    Robinson 4

    Leonard 5

    See how many lineups you guys can come up with from our current roster

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 08/08/2013 7:54 PM

    i like victor more at the 4 then batum but at that point you might as well put in T-rob cause victor cant shoot to save his life batum would get mauled by most 4's thou wes can guard almost everyone on the court but maybe the center

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/08/2013 8:04 PM

    I like that both Victor and Nico can play 3 positions. I think the first two examples I have here are "small ball lineups" exclusively because Wes, LaMarcus and Nic all slide over two allow two Shooters in the backcourt. Almost any combo of Lopez, Leonard, Robinson, Aldridge and Freeland is able to run. All the guards can run. Add the scoring punch and we have dozens of lineups to play. I'm glad Stotts gets to figure it out because there are so many choices.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. fredisdead
    fredisdead
    Posts: 62

    Posted 08/08/2013 9:50 PM

    i a feeling this is the kinda team stotts loves this is the way he wants i think i think he loves to be creative with his offense and with so many line up possibility's but i still question are D and what its going to look like 

  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/09/2013 1:22 PM

    I would love to see LA and T-Rob take the floor with Wright and 2 guards. Mo and Lillard would be my best picks because they can play both positions at different times. Lillard will be the PG but Mo has the ability to be a playmaker. Alternatively, Batum could play at the 3 with Wright at the 4 and McCollum and Lillard in the backcourt. 

    1. Lillard

    2. Mo/ McCollum

    3. Batum

    4. T-Rob/ Claver

    5. LMA


    Either of these combinations would be terrific and at any stage you could slot Matthews in at a 2/3 spot and move Mo to PG. Barton could also come in somewhere and give offense and help push the ball in transition. We have so many weapons and on any given night we could get 25pts from anyone. Lillard and LA are the 1st options but with our bench and both Matthews and Batum, we could easily put up 100+ every night. 

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/09/2013 3:01 PM

    This is a conversation that we couldnt have last year. What would really be nice is if Batum worked on his ball handling. A line up of

    Mo

    Batum

    Wright

    T-Rob

    LA

    Thats fire power right there.The only inconsistent shooter would be T-Rob, but he'd be crashing the boards like a man posessed.

     

    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/10/2013 1:35 AM

    With a good athletic rebounder in T-Rob, LA would now have the luxury of taking his man beyond the paint and putting up a few of those jumpers he grew so fond of last year. I'd like him to play in paint more but I'm not averse to him spreading the floor. However, he must still do work on the boards at both ends. This year should see him average double figures in both scoring and rebounding and with all our shooting around him, he could get more assists. I'll live with him dishing 3 a game. 

    Another lineup I think would hurt teams is where Batum plays the 2 with Lillard at the point and Wright at the 3. That's 3 good shooters and plenty of size on the wing. LA and Lopez would bothe be on the floor because we need them to do work on the glass and protect the rim. While small ball is effective for teams on the offensive end, it can lead to some defensive deficiencies as shown by Miami (who also happen to have Lebron to guard the perimeter). 

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 08/10/2013 9:11 AM

    Batum at the 4 would be a disaster, he is far too passive and too much of a finesse player to succeed at that spot for any sustained time. There is a reason when we play NY and Miami Matthews guards Lebron and Anthony, it is because Batum is not physical enough to do so.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 08/10/2013 10:35 AM

    Yes, Batums defense on Dirk was simply terrible.  Oh, wait, no it wasn't.  Back to reality.  For every player one says it would be a terrible match up, there are more where it would work fantastic.  No point in cherry picking cases to try and prove a point. ; )
  1. barnettfan
    barnettfan
    Posts: 392

    Posted 08/10/2013 2:17 PM

    KG, Pau Gasol, Lebron, Tim Duncon, Milsap, Randolph, Love, and I am sure there are 6 more I have not mentioned Batum would get walked on at the 4, Dirk was just figuring him out, in a 7 game run Batum would lose out. Batum can play 2 positions  the 2 and the 3 if you put him at the 4 he would be the only person Pau Gasol could guard. So put down the blunt and come back to reality or the next thing you will be thinking he can start at center guarding Shaq and Kareem.
    I am a fan of
  1. tanneralan
    tanneralan
    Posts: 3

    Posted 08/10/2013 3:20 PM

    I agree on the Batum comment, I think Batum has so much potential to play a lot like Durant, if the guy would just get a lot more aggressive like Durant we could have a dangerous weapon, instead of him being scared and just wanting to take the three. I think T-Rob will compliment LA well because he seems to be committed to rebounding as we saw in summer league, love what I am seeing already out of him!
    I am a fan of working hard, get results.
  1. Simpson
    Simpson
    Posts: 303

    Posted 08/10/2013 3:33 PM

    @ tanneralan, I can't wait for Kg to TRY to get in T-Rob's face; T-Rob WON'T b having any of "that!"  Hahaha!  We've been lacking a legit tough guy for a while; I'm a fan of Joel too (he was the closest we had & even he hasn't been here all that long to enforce any "justice." ;)  LMA is my fav. player & he doesn't back down to any1 (which I like) BUT it's just not the same as when you've got a guy like T-Rob w/ his presence! :)
    I am a fan of OUR Blazers!
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 08/10/2013 4:01 PM

    Posted By barnettfan on 08/10/2013 2:17 PM
    KG, Pau Gasol, Lebron, Tim Duncon, Milsap, Randolph, Love, and I am sure there are 6 more I have not mentioned Batum would get walked on at the 4, Dirk was just figuring him out, in a 7 game run Batum would lose out. Batum can play 2 positions  the 2 and the 3 if you put him at the 4 he would be the only person Pau Gasol could guard. So put down the blunt and come back to reality or the next thing you will be thinking he can start at center guarding Shaq and Kareem.


    More cherry picking. 12 examples out of some 200 players that will find themselves playing PF at some point next season.  Tunnel vision isn't an excuse for not understand that line-ups change quarter to quarter in any given game of the 82 regular season games.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/10/2013 5:39 PM

    I started the thread with the idea that fans would come up with different lineups and thank you BF...couldn't agree more. The idea is not that LA is a center or Nico is a PF but that "WHEN" you play small ball you have Nico shooting the corner three. Sure, we all know Nic is not a half court grind it out power forward. Ideally a team works as a unit, not as an individual (unless you're a Laker) and the idea is to look at roster options. Nic is actually fast and good at shot blocking and steals. That was not the point, the point is our starters are Lopez, Lillard, Mathews, Batum and Aldridge but we have so many ways to mix it up. If the thread was titled, half court game, Lopez would be in the game, Robinson would be in the game. All this was meant for a bit of off season fun but please avoid player bashing and comparisons. It really does not add to the conversation.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/10/2013 8:17 PM

    If the starters built a double digit early lead and we opposed a team with a weaker bench we could play 5 in 5 out. My first 5 in 5 out rotation would be:

    Mo Williams

    CJ McCollum

    Dorell Wright

    Thomas Robinson

    Meyers Leoanard

    (I think Robinson and Leonard will get a lot of time together in rotations)

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/10/2013 8:48 PM

    There are but a few teams who will not be able to play small with us. What will seperate us from them is our ability to shoot the rock. I especially am going to like when Meyers pulls his man out to the three point line and allow T-Rob to beast the glass. Ahhhhhhhhh, the beauty of options.

     

    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/11/2013 2:08 AM

    That's a lineup I'm quite excited about too. Leonard shooting the 3 isn't my favourite offensive option but I'd love for him to do it when we play against more traditional Cs like Jefferson, Howard, Bynum and the likes. T-Rob would have to be in the lineup to clean the glass and maybe Claver because of his size at the 3. Don't know about the guards in that lineup but right now with the great depth we have at the 2 and the addition of Mo we could play eeni meeni miny mo and still be competitive. 


    My ideal 5 in 5 out lineup would be the same as Rivers. I'm not sure whether our young team should be 5 in 5 out though. I'd like Batum or Matthews on the floor with Mo to help sure up the perimeter. CJ isn't a great defender but I like him on the floor because he can create his own shot. I think my ideal "second unit" would be Mo, Matthews, Batum, T-Rob and Leonard. Batum brings length, Matthews toughness and we will get athleticism and rebounding from Robinson. LA and Lillard will probably play 7-8 mins in the 1st quarter and start the 4th quarter to ensure that we put teams away. 

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 08/11/2013 8:35 AM

    Meyers shooting the three would not make things easier for T-Rob. Bigs like Howard and Bynum are rim protectors and are not going to run out to the three point line, especially if there is someone to guard in the post.

     

    Here is my ideal lineup Lillard, Matthews, Batum, LA, Lopez I believe this will be our best defensive unit and Batum can continue to be a facilitator then the lack of a second ball handler becomes less pressing.

     

    For the bench, Williams, McCollum, Wright, Robinson and LA. Having LA in this line will only make it easier for McCollum or Williams to get to the basket. Additionally, it will allow the team to maintain quality spacing without seriously sacrificing our team defense.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/11/2013 10:51 AM

    Bynum may not be able to run period. Meyers runs like a deer. If Bynum or Howard are on the court, chances are you're not going to see Leonard as much a Lopez. Robinson is a great offensive rebounder which we really need with JJ gone. I don't have a problem with Meyers developing his outside shot, he's got pretty good form. Sabonis could hit the 3 anytime he wanted to. It's a plus for 7 footers to have a jump shot. We may lead the league in 3 pt shots this season or be right there with GS.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/11/2013 12:06 PM

    If I remember correctly, our better lineups last year, offensively, were our starters minus JJ and with Babbitt (I know that sounds crazy) or with Leonard. Leonard playing with LA gives us real size inside and more offense. Again my concern with Leonard now going outside to shoot 3s is that we don't get enough free throws. Free throws come from fouls and getting to the rim for dunks and layups. If we can draw more fouls per game it will increase our scoring and will give us more options on offense. I like the fact that we can shoot 3s and have more guys who have shot the 3 well over their careers, I just don't want us to become a jump shooting team. Teams like Indiana and San Antonio defend the 3pt line really well and I think GS will be much better defending the 3pt line this year. We must have more wrinkles in our offense than a plethora of 3pt shots. 


    I trust Stotts to develop an offensive identity that we can enjoy. I also feel he can get the best out of guys like LA and Lillard because they are surrounded by scoring talent. But what's gonna happen if the 3s aren't falling on a given night? Can Batum and LA get inside for easy looks? Can Lillard and McCollum beat guys off the dribble and use some craft and guile inside? Floaters and runners? And can the second unit slow down the opposition on the defensive end?

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/11/2013 1:37 PM

    Its not something i want to see constantly,but when we play certain squads,it would be an asset to pull rebounding bigs out of the paint and let everyone else crash the boards.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 08/11/2013 3:08 PM

    Let's just see...


    Transition:

    1. Lillard

    2. McCollum

    3. Matthews

    4. Batum

    5. Leonard


    Defensive

    1. Williams

    2. Matthews

    3. Batum

    4. Robinson

    5. Lopez


    3-pt Shooting

    1. Lillard

    2. McCollum

    3. Crabbe

    4. Wright

    5. Aldridge


    Twin Tower (Big Ball)

    1. Lillard

    2. Batum

    3. Wright

    4. Lopez

    5. Leonard


    3 Guards

    1. Williams

    2. Lillard

    3. Matthews

    4. Robinson

    5. Aldridge


    This is what teams get when their GM puts together a roster. It's a good thing.

    I am a fan of
  1. Simpson
    Simpson
    Posts: 303

    Posted 08/11/2013 3:19 PM

    @ D_pickett, NOT just any GM could create the ^... THIS is what happens when u turn Neil THE Steals loose!  To ALL opposition, I wanna say:  Neil IS OUR's!!!  :)
    I am a fan of OUR Blazers!
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/11/2013 3:34 PM

    Posted By D_pickett on 08/11/2013 3:08 PM

    Let's just see...

    Transition:

    1. Lillard

    2. McCollum

    3. Matthews

    4. Batum

    5. Leonard

    Defensive

    1. Williams

    2. Matthews

    3. Batum

    4. Robinson

    5. Lopez

    3-pt Shooting

    1. Lillard

    2. McCollum

    3. Crabbe

    4. Wright

    5. Aldridge

    Twin Tower (Big Ball)

    1. Lillard

    2. Batum

    3. Wright

    4. Lopez

    5. Leonard

    3 Guards

    1. Williams

    2. Lillard

    3. Matthews

    4. Robinson

    5. Aldridge

    This is what teams get when their GM puts together a roster. It's a good thing.


    Now we're cookin! Training camp is going to be a competitive beast before preseason starts! Get ready to rock and roll Blazer fans!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/11/2013 3:52 PM

    Im jonesin like a junky waiting for this season to start.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. stacksfan2005
    stacksfan2005
    Posts: 363

    Posted 08/11/2013 11:47 PM

    because blazers traditionally blow games in the third quarter i think a line up for the first 5-6min small ball of


    PG williams

    SG lillard

    SF matthews

    PF aldridge

    C rob or lopez (for rebounding)

    then once you've winded the opponent, go massive

    PG lillard

    SG batum

    SF aldridge

    PF leonard

    C lopez

    switching line ups like this allows lillard to warm up his shot playing the 2 and conserve energy to go hard handling the rock later in the quarter. also allows aldridge to warm up down low and turn into a shooter later allowing some fresh big guys to take care of the banging. batum can guard a PG or a 2 better than anyone, i prefer him in a large line up guaring a small more than i would like to see him in a small line up playing a big. matthews is the opposite, smaller guy who isnt afraid to bang with a bigger guy but sometimes not quick enough to guard the smaller guy

  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/12/2013 10:33 AM

    Small ball, while entertaining to watch, does not win championships.  Defense and rebounding net teams the finger jewelry.  Stott's system is a polar opposite of Nate's.  What each lacks, the other possesses.  Even with that tandem on the  Blazer bench, there would still be a glaring need for a big man coach.  Under Stotts, Leonard's maturation as a big is doomed.  

    Stotts will bring this team out of the cellar with Olshey's help, but I don't believe he is the man to lead this team to a title.  As I have said many many times, this is STILL a jump shooting team and jump shooting teams don't advance in the post season.  Whether reliable high percentage looks come from a traditional post or from effective slashers, this team MUST find themselves at the rim far more often.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/12/2013 12:46 PM

    I agree BDawg if you play nothing but small ball but this was just a roster example of lineups you could go small with. I think Stotts will show more variety with the roster and we have a new asst in Tibbets. Meyers Leonard's growth rate is not really on Stotts. It's on the big man coach and  even more, on himself. I think with Leonard people forget that he's still a kid. I have a son in college a year older than Meyers and it puts in perspective where he's at. Meyers also played pt guard in high school and got a late growth spurt. Right now Freeland, Leonard and Robinson are at big man camp so they're making an effort. The asset Meyers has is he can shoot and can run. Our team will look very different defensively this season but Golden State did ok  playing a lot of small ball last season and they made a run. Defense wins championships but that's another thread. Kaleb Canales failed as a defensive coordinator. See what Tibbets has to offer.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/12/2013 1:53 PM

    I'm 100% with BDawg here. I've been crying for this team to be a team that attacks the paint. I'm really excited about our ability from deep but I'm equally concerned that we will fall in love with that shot and neglect the easier looks that could come from getting to the rim. I feel like its on LA and Batum to get inside more. LA is such a good offensive rebounder and he could really thrive on the glass getting second chance buckets if our shooters aren't hitting their shots. Lopez and TRob will do the same, but we need to get inside to draw fouls and win free throws. 


    Get opposition bigs in foul trouble. If Howard (for example) is on two fouls early on in a game, we can attack the Houston guards who aren't really great defenders and get easy buckets off dribble penetration. I know they have Asik as a back up but this was just an example. Teams like New York and OKC have defensive big men who help their weaker perimeter defense. With us it should be pick your poison. Either you protect the 3pt line or you protect the paint. But at no point should we give both up to anyone. Only Indy strikes me as steam that could conceivably protect the paint and stop a barrage of 3pt shots. 


    Like BDawg said, we look like a jump shooting team and I feel that our bigs in LA and Lopez and TRob could be the key to opening up the floor if they get inside and collapse the defense. Then our 3pt shooting becomes an unstoppable weapon. Contested 3s only fall sometimes. Wide open 3s come from good ball movement, good presence inside and fall far more often.

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 08/12/2013 3:20 PM

    Can one honestly say that cramming the ball in the paint is easier without a perimeter game?  If shooters aren't hitting, every team in the NBA struggles.  Hitting perimeter shots is what opens up the middle, pulls the defense out, and opens up lanes to the rim that would otherwise be closed. 

     

    If your guards can't shoot well, teams dont respect the pick and roll, which is the prime play in the NBA.  Yes, the ultimately goal is to simply score, but it's getting an open shot that has the most significant impact on scoring buckets.

     

    I have no issue with Portland shooting more open 3pt jumpers than the next team, and feel that the Blazers are very cabable of doing a better job of getting rebounds this season.

  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/12/2013 8:22 PM

    I think the alley oop has a good chance of being back as it did in the Dre to LA era when we led the league. Mo can paint the corners with a ball. LaMarcus loves the alley oop and it needs to come back! My favorite basketball play maybe EVER was Dre's inbound alley oop to Batum on the inbounds pass. A true thing of beauty. When Dre left we lost great passing. Mo brings that back.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/12/2013 9:22 PM

    Someone needs to tell Miami that small ball doesnt win championships. Either way,neither small ball nor big ball wins championships. In the end, it's team ball that wins championships.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Simpson
    Simpson
    Posts: 303

    Posted 08/12/2013 9:56 PM

    @ riverman, lobs to LMA will return; however, it will b our 2nd unit that will c a larger # of lobs thrown/completed (Mo will start but he'll ALSO run w/ the 2nd unit where he can get passes off easier).  Most opposing starters will c this stuff coming a mile a way, especially if u do it too often; 2nd units though... for the most part, even if they know it's coming, MOST can't do much about it!  Lobbing to T-Rob, Meyers, Will... Mwwwwaaaaaahh!  Haha!  AWESOME!!! :)
    I am a fan of OUR Blazers!
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/13/2013 12:43 AM

    I think it's all a matter getting that balance. Oing a bit of both and ensuring that we win games. I agree that hitting open shots opens up the middle and stretches the defense. And I still maintain that scoring inside will lead to open shots. Taking open 3s is never going to be a problem for me. I have an issue where we rely on the 3pt shot (whether open or contested) too much. We have a great low post threat in LA and I don't want to see him doing what he did last year where he became a shooter instead of a paint presence. Again, it's about getting a balanced offense. Killing teams more than one way.

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 08/13/2013 4:27 AM

    I was able to sneak the question of small ball to the experts at Talkin' Ball. According to their projections, the answer is NO. We should see more traditional lineups with a Center in the game at all times. There may be a few times when we're down by a big margin, and might need to start launching desperation heaves for 5 minutes. But for the most, we'll be seeing Aldridge/Lopez, and Leonard/Robinson paired up for the better part of 48 minutes.
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/13/2013 6:19 AM

    @CT...Miami is LeBron.  The James' Heat. When you have the best player in the game, a generational player, you can afford to buck tradition and play without a consistent post presence. My definition of small ball is relying on a perimeter based offense. Miami won a title on the backs of two of, if not the best two, slashers and finishers in the entire league. Looking at a Miami shot chart after a game and comparing it with that of a Blazer shot chart will tell the story. With Wade and Bron, high percentage looks came seemingly at will and the pair consistently collapsed opposing defenses with their attacking mentality, drawing fouls and earning penalty. This threat game in and game out also provided Miami jumpshooters uncontested looks. Inside-out offense, in a very non-traditional way. As Caitlin said, balance. My hope for this Blazer team this season is that balance. High percentage looks. High percentage looks. Further, Portland's defense last season did not translate into easy, high percentage buckets at the other end. In fact, too often our Blazers battled an expiring shot clock in a half court set...with a distinct absence of a post threat and/or an effective slasher, forcing contested jumpers. Lebron can defend all 5 positions on the floor, a luxury no one else in the league...including Portland, has. Transition was something Miami lived on, particularly without that anchor in the middle offensively... see shot chart reference above.

    If Lopez proves to be the rim protector we all hope he'll be, the Blazers SHOULD be able to get out in transition more often and increase their number of high percentage looks. That is something I do not consider to be small ball.
    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/13/2013 11:20 AM

    Small ball in my opinion is a tactic to be used when the situation requires it. Again I don't think we can gauge the roster by last seasons weaknesses. You need to be able to execute the half court and pick and roll game and we are better suited for that than we have been. Don't get me wrong with the thread title, I don't want to become the Steve Nash Suns. LeBron won the eastern conference against Indiana, one of the best grind it out half court teams in the east but only because of Ray Allen's 3 point clutch shot, not because of points in the paint. If paint dominance made champions, The Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies or Pacers would have won the ring. They didn't. You need to make big teams pay for clogging the lanes and you need guys who can create their own shot. We have a lot more guys capable of doing that. Batum said in his exit interview that creating his shot was his goal in the offseason. Wes is a great defender when healthy but not a good ball handler or good at finishing a layup in traffic. This season he won't have that role laid on him and he'll do what Bruce Bown used to. Defend and make 3 pt shots.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 08/13/2013 12:05 PM

    Most people seem to be channeling their high school coaches when they talk about playing in the paint. Most high-level teams know how to stop their opponents' scoring in the paint. Riverman is right on. Scoring from anywhere on the floor is so much more important. We have 3 point shooting, Dame who can score from anywhere in almost a D-Rose or LeBron kind of way, LaMarcus who might be the best back-to-basket scorer in the league, Lopez and Robinson who can crash the offensive boards and get second chance points, plus a lot of athletic guys that can run and score in transition. Variety gets it done.


    I had to laugh at the idea that people don't win championships with small ball... I have to remind you of the 2012 finals. Miami played mostly small ball the entire series since OKC had Perkins and Ibaka clogging the middle. And in doing this, Miami thrashed OKC in a 4-1 series.


    And everyone needs to stop using the "it's all LeBron" argument. It's not. He might score as many as 40 points in a given playoff game, but no team has ever won a playoff game with only 40 points. LeBron couldn't get it done in 7 seasons with Cleveland and only won a ring when he got teammates like D-Wade, Bosh, Battier, Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, etc. Plus a coach like Spoelstra and a system that worked for the Heat's roster. If a team is playing 10 or more deep, there's no way you can say one player is the only reason they're winning.



    I am a fan of
  1. stacksfan2005
    stacksfan2005
    Posts: 363

    Posted 08/13/2013 12:30 PM

    to me "small ball" is 2 smaller guards and replacing the SF with a traditional 2guard. you still keep a PF and C in the game especially with our roster. sure lebron can play 4 because he's ridiculously strong but batum should never be a 4 unless the other team has t prince in at C or something stupid. 

    if you put lillard in at the 2 and have williams run point or vice versa to me you are playing small but you also have 2 ball handlers who can hit shots. you need LA and a big to rebound and set picks at this point and you can have either batum or matthews in at the 3 but if you are playing small i think matthews plays big enough to guard most 3's while i like batum guarding smaller opponents. the problem with batum is no matter what position he plays he should be crashing boards, and it always comes back to how he feels on any night. when he brings it he can be a triple double guy easy, when he feels like coasting he may as well ride the bench.

  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/13/2013 3:17 PM

    Miami doesn't play small ball.  Simply not having a low post threat in the half court doesn't mean you then are playing small.  Stand in front of LeBron or Wade and deny them the rim.  The heat were anything but a perimeter based offense.  Miami won the title with their stingy D and the points in transition at the rim that resulted, and with unbelievable slash and finishers in Lebron and Wade in the half court.  The Blazers possessed none of the above.  Miami's shot chart tells the story.  A plethera of high percentage looks with a few bombs mixed in.  Again, in short and as CP has said...balance.  With what I cconsider to be "small ball", such balance is not possible.


    Just semantics I believe.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 08/15/2013 8:56 PM

    I personally believe in playing the 5 players that give you the best advantage over the opponent at any given time. If that means small ball, ok. If that means Nic at the 2, Lillard at the 2, or LaMarcus at the 5, I'm ok with it. I'm just getting the impression that every fan thinks they somehow know the secret to winning basketball that over half the coaches in the league aren't smart enough to notice. The point of this thread was about versatility and options we now have with the roster.

    I am a fan of
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 08/16/2013 6:28 PM

    Very very well said D_Pickett, I started the thread after Mo Williams was signed thinking it was fun when I started swapping players in the roster for different looks. I'm as excited about what Stotts does with this roster as I have been in in a long time. I should start a twin towers thread as well.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 08/17/2013 12:31 AM

    Maybe don't name it that... There might be a few former New Yorkers on this board. :(

    I am a fan of
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 08/17/2013 12:56 PM

    I would be more worried about the unfavorable comparisons to Duncan- Robinson and Mchale- Parrish than the NYC skyscrapers.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 08/19/2013 12:06 AM

    Yeah, cmeese. The Duncan/Robinson and Parrish/McHale tandems will never exist again. I don't even think anyone will get close to that kind of front court for decades to come. But I think we can all agree that the league has changed. Whether that's for better or worse is up for debate.

    I am a fan of
  1. Cailin Pietersen
    Cailin Pietersen
    Posts: 244

    Posted 08/19/2013 1:18 AM

    I suppose it depends who you ask. Indiana and Memphis certainly like their big lineups and San Antonio quite often plays 2 natural bigs in Duncan and someone else (Splitter or Diaw). But the more successful teams in the league like Miami and up until last year Boston only play one. It's all about the roster and creating a balance between offense and defense. I believe we have the tools now to be dangerous with a variety of lineups. 

    I am a fan of shouting Batuuuuuum-Shaka-Laka whenever Nic hits a 3!!!!!
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 08/19/2013 1:22 AM

    The original "Twin Towers" were Hakeem Olajuwan (7') and Ralph Sampson (7'4")who played together for Houston from 1984-1988. 
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 08/19/2013 8:18 AM

    I would have gone more with Nate Thurmond and Wilt Chamberlin 1963-1965. That was a scary rebounding front court.
    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 08/19/2013 11:07 AM

    I'll take the one-two of William Theodore Walton and Maurice Lucas.  "Big Red" and "The Enforcer" won an NBA championship in '76/'77.


    Gone, but most certainly not forgotten.  Peace Mo.  Thank you for the memories.

    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 08/19/2013 2:38 PM

    Speaking of bigs.......

    Greg Oden's agent, Mike Conley Jr., said the parties involved changed their mind and decided that Oden would sign a one-year deal with the Heat, without a second-year player option as originally planned. Conley said that helps Oden (because of a league ruling involving injury contingency language in his contract) and helps the Heat because Miami would not be burdened with his contract in 2014-15 --- and potentially $3 million in luxury tax payments -- if he suffers another major injury this season.

    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
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