Players don't move needles, teams do
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/07/2013 4:13 PM

    A great coaching staff, system that fits each position and keeps the team in a position to succeed and the players that understand and buy into it. That's what moves a needle and makes championship contenders. If something isn't working there's a plan b, c, d etc that is in place to adjust. So many fans think getting a Dwight Howard means winning a ring. It's more than likely that The Pistons under Brown or Bulls under Jackson were built to win. Pistons had Ben Wallace at 6'9 in the paint. Bulls had Luc Longley, Will Perdue and Bill Wennington in the post. I think the Blazers have the pieces given the right system to be headed toward the big show. Dissecting the roster and coaching staff player by player is not the way it's done. The Spurs are there now...it works. We're not far away from being in the conversation if the TEAM moves the needle. Collectively I think we could have moved the team needle quite a bit going into next season.

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/07/2013 4:19 PM

    Lebron moves the needle on any team.

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/07/2013 4:40 PM

    Lebron is a great, great player. Without Ray Allen he would have been ringless  this season. I think the Heat stepped up as a team and Spoelstra did a great job. No discredit but he didn't win by himself with the Heat. He didn't win rings with the Cavs. He improved as a teammate and team player the last two seasons with great success.  The Spurs are my example of a system that works. All in all it has nothing really to do with my point. Championships are a collective not bought by one player or one coach alone. I think Stotts gets this but I know you'd like him fired cmeese. We disagree. I think we're 10 deep now. There are many factors between now and the next playoffs but if all our sophmores improve across the board, I like our chances. Now back to an example of buying disfunction. Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash  (All at some point in their careers Needle Movers by committee) and well, we know the result. We'll see just how good Houston becomes. LeBrons needle moved a lot more with D Wade and Bosh than with Sasha Pavlovic and Booby Gibson.

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 07/07/2013 5:36 PM

    Teams and team defense win jewelry.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/07/2013 5:44 PM

    GREAT post, river. In basketball, it almost seems more frequent that a super-team flops than wins a championship. The Heat trick a lot of people into thinking they are a team of superstars. They aren't. They have two superstars and Chris Bosh (who is a good player but he's only a "superstar" because 90% of NBA cameras are pointed at Miami). But the thing that the Miami front office did much more brilliantly than bringing in Bosh and James was filling the roster with stellar role players. Last year, they would've lost without Mike Miller. This year, they would've lost without Battier and Allen. Udonis Haslem doesn't move anyone's needle alone, but the dude has 3 more rings than Dwight, Carmelo, and CP3.


    I think overall, we might be a 7th or 8th seed in the west if we're lucky this year. But I also think Olshey is trying to put Stotts and the whole organization in a position to be a Spurs-like team.

    I am a fan of
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/07/2013 5:53 PM

    Lebron took an abysmal team to the NBA finals that is very impressive. Without a superstar like Lebron then you need a good system. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/07/2013 6:11 PM

    Right. So at least 29 teams need a good system. We agree.

    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/07/2013 6:15 PM

    I get it now.  Portland did not aquire LeBron yet again, so cmeese47 has nothing nice to say about the Blazers.  Now's as good a time as any to jump, with 2 rings now and all.  Can we get a "Go Heat" before you shove off?
  1. Simpson
    Simpson
    Posts: 303

    Posted 07/07/2013 6:37 PM

    Deals can still b made; I propose we trade cmeese47 for a Lakers fan because @ least the Lakers fan will support OUR Blazers somehow.
    I am a fan of OUR Blazers!
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 07/07/2013 6:46 PM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 07/07/2013 6:15 PM
    I get it now.  Portland did not aquire LeBron yet again, so cmeese47 has nothing nice to say about the Blazers.  Now's as good a time as any to jump, with 2 rings now and all.  Can we get a "Go Heat" before you shove off?


    Hilarious. I said meese was Mitch Kupchak all along.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 07/07/2013 6:57 PM

    LOL Cmesse said 3 sentences now and is getting ripped for it. He didn't say nothing wrong....


    Love CTs theory haha 

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/07/2013 7:58 PM

    Posted By Siccolo on 07/07/2013 6:57 PM

    LOL Cmesse said 3 sentences now and is getting ripped for it. He didn't say nothing wrong....

    Love CTs theory haha 



    I don't have "82games" stats on this, but I can tell you with certainty that cmesse percentage of negative posts (trade LA, Batum Petition, I'm  better GM than Allen...) on these boards over the 2 years I've been posting here are more than double LA percentage from mid-ranged.  Just sayin.  Get on board or go home!  GO BLAZERS!
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:07 PM

     

     

    Lets not forget this boards is for sharing opinions and if you cannot accept that then it is time for you to:

     

    GET ON BOARD OR GO HOME. 

     

    Thanks for your honesty Cmeese.  Keep sharing it, it is your opinion and it is valued contrary to the popular belief of some.

     

     

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:11 PM

    Posted By Blazer Fanatic on 07/07/2013 7:58 PM
    Posted By Siccolo on 07/07/2013 6:57 PM

    LOL Cmesse said 3 sentences now and is getting ripped for it. He didn't say nothing wrong....

     

    Love CTs theory haha 



    I don't have "82games" stats on this, but I can tell you with certainty that cmesse percentage of negative posts (trade LA, Batum Petition, I'm  better GM than Allen...) on these boards over the 2 years I've been posting here are more than double LA percentage from mid-ranged.  Just sayin.  Get on board or go home!  GO BLAZERS!

    meese is a funny guy. If it were up to meese, we'd play 3 against 5. Brandon Roy,Dame and Buck Williams against OKC.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. BlazerManiac
    BlazerManiac
    Posts: 777

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:27 PM

     

     

    You too commmontongue, please respect other peoples opinions and do not disparage someone else.  This is an opinion board.

     

    I am not free from guilt either, as I caught myself doing it a few months ago.  I limit myself now on this board as I get tired of people ripping me because I and others voice our opinions.

    I am a fan of WES, the heart and soul of the Blazers.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:28 PM

    Posted By BlazerManiac on 07/07/2013 8:07 PM

     

     

    Lets not forget this boards is for sharing opinions and if you cannot accept that then it is time for you to:

     

    GET ON BOARD OR GO HOME. 

     

    Thanks for your honesty Cmeese.  Keep sharing it, it is your opinion and it is valued contrary to the popular belief of some.

     

     



    I'm sorry you felt left out.  If only I could edit my post. -_-
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:28 PM

    Trading players is not inherently negative, it just suggests that the team could use improvement. We missed the playoffs last year by any definition, the team needed to improve. I suggested making trades to improve, Olshey and Allen decided to do the same and then sign cheap free agents to fill in the roster gaps. 


    Since LA shot 41% from mid range last year I would have had to post 82% or more negative posts. I would imagine at worst my percentage is closer to 60% and considering in those last two years we were 28-38 and 33-49 a robust 41% winning percentage, which closely aligns with my percentage of negative posts. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:34 PM

    LOL Does it matter what people post? As long as they don't flood the boards with redundant threads/posts, then It takes a couple seconds to scroll over their post. Its all good. My only gripe is when people think they are a GM and get mad when moves they want are not made. LOL Nothings irritates me more lol

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:49 PM

    Posted By cmeese47 on 07/07/2013 8:28 PM

    Trading players is not inherently negative, it just suggests that the team could use improvement. We missed the playoffs last year by any definition, the team needed to improve. I suggested making trades to improve, Olshey and Allen decided to do the same and then sign cheap free agents to fill in the roster gaps. 

    Since LA shot 41% from mid range last year I would have had to post 82% or more negative posts. I would imagine at worst my percentage is closer to 60% and considering in those last two years we were 28-38 and 33-49 a robust 41% winning percentage, which closely aligns with my percentage of negative posts. 


    Come on guy.  It's so much much more than you suggesting Portland trade players.  It's pointing out everything you can to say what's wrong with them (LA not getting selected to 1st team, LA getting selected to the All-Star team but shouldn't have, LA isn't good because he is a stretch 4, LA doesn't rebound, LA doesn't play defense... blah, blah, blah).

     

    And yet even in your bias opinion, you admit that a majority of your posts are negative.  That's a step. I can respect your honesty, if you can respect that a lot of Blazer fans may get tired and bored of it because it is non-stop.  How many posts must one make about "Trade LA" and "Trade Batum"?   It's no less a drain on a BLAZER forum, than Felton was on the BLAZER team at the end of that horrible season 2 years ago.  I get it your opinion.  I hear you loud and clear.  Repeating it ad nausium isn't going to make your opinion any stronger or solicite a different response from ppl.  I can go through and list the posts you make and run down the percentage but that's not the point.

     

    The Blazers are a team.  The team is the players.  I challange you to share your support for them more often than you share your disapproval.  Talk about what you like for a change.  I bet you'll find you'll engage more fans and garner more respect for your opinions.

     

     

  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/07/2013 8:51 PM

    Posted By riverman on 07/07/2013 4:13 PM

    A great coaching staff, system that fits each position and keeps the team in a position to succeed and the players that understand and buy into it. That's what moves a needle and makes championship contenders. If something isn't working there's a plan b, c, d etc that is in place to adjust. So many fans think getting a Dwight Howard means winning a ring. It's more than likely that The Pistons under Brown or Bulls under Jackson were built to win. Pistons had Ben Wallace at 6'9 in the paint. Bulls had Luc Longley, Will Perdue and Bill Wennington in the post. I think the Blazers have the pieces given the right system to be headed toward the big show. Dissecting the roster and coaching staff player by player is not the way it's done. The Spurs are there now...it works. We're not far away from being in the conversation if the TEAM moves the needle. Collectively I think we could have moved the team needle quite a bit going into next season.



    Anyway... back on topic.  Solid take riverman.
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/07/2013 11:09 PM

    I post negative things on the message boards because it generates conversations. Also because I get sick of the sugar coated fan boy and fan girl bs that appears when I don't. 


    Yes, constantly complaining certainly can be annoying or grating but so can never ending enthusiasm in spite of obvious deficiencies. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/08/2013 8:38 AM

    Thanks BF! Cmeese, I have no problem with opposing views and observations or even critique but building excitement in the Rose Garden or a msg board for the team, finding some joy in the growth of your favorite team is the comraderie fans like to share. It's human nature. Imagine a Rose Garden filled with boos when LaMarcus or Nic's names are announced. Kind of takes the momentum right out of the teams soul. It's not sugar coating bs from boys and girls my friend, it's a supportive environment. With constant disdain for all things from the front office to the roster, is there any joy in being a Blazer fan from your perspective? I took a few months off from the msg boards because there just wasn't any momentum in the discussions, it got really redundant. I came back because the threads were getting back to excitement and support. Constant negative affirmations just kill the threads and chase away a lot of valued members of the fan site. I hope it doesn't head back down that road again because I really suck at writing blogs!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. cmeese47
    cmeese47
    Posts: 2735

    Posted 07/08/2013 9:12 AM

    As you can read I have posted mostly positive affirmations of the moves this summer. 


    I am still concerned CJ is not a good enough passer to be a PG in this league but I am also aware he is undersized to be a SG as well. I hope sometime in the gym with the coaches can help him improve because he does not seem like a selfish player, however, with his terrible passing out of the pick and roll, which the team runs a lot of makes me worry. 


    I liked the deal for Crabbe but was confused why we added another SG, but since the plan is to obviously play CJ at PG it made more sense. 


    I also like the deal for Robinson and think he has some nice potential. 


    I am not a huge fan of Lopez but I knew we were not getting a marquee C so adding him for some second round picks and a C I was not sold on was just fine for me. 


    Dorrell Wright can shoot the three but I am still concerned about his overall efficiency shooting below 40% overall last year.


    As far as Earl Watson goes I hated this move, simple as that. 


    Did we improve as a team, yes, are we a playoff team, maybe, are we an NBA title contender, no. 


    We have a long ways to go and until we get there I will be full of suggestions on how we can. I certainly agree with your original idea that we need a team mentality, unfortunately I do not believe we have the right one. We do not have a defensive identity, and our live and die by the three offense, while exciting reminds me too much of the Suns and Warriors offenses that have excited by ultimately failed to produce titles. In addition, I see a major lack of leadership on this team, LA is the best player but he is not an outspoken locker room leader, that role belongs to Matthews, who I love but the role needs to be filled from LA, Lillard or Stotts. 


    Just to clarify, suggesting trades is not negative, nor is suggesting a player is not living up to their contract. Some of what gets said in those threads can get negative that is for sure but considering the last two seasons a little hostility is to be expected. That is when it is most important for the positive thinkers to bring good information and counter arguments. 

    I am a fan of Getting Defensive Players This Summer.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/08/2013 11:34 AM

    Ok, I feel like both sides of the "be a positive/negative fan" debate has been run into the ground and is now just getting redundant.

    I think we can all agree that, to keep these forums healthy, we need both sides of the fanbase and in balanced doses. A forum full of blind praise can be just as annoying as a forum full of blind cynicism, and this forum has had periods of both. This has resulted in long-time posters taking their leave, but hopefully coming back soon (good to hear from you again, Riverman).

    We're all allowed to skew our personal perspective towards one slant or the other, but to avoid getting bogged down in the trash talking and mudslinging, it would be AWESOME if we can all make the effort to balance our own posts, instead of just trying to balance the posts of others. That goes for BOTH SIDES. Obviously we're going to critique the commentary that we disagree with, but pleeeease, let's try and do it without degrading the other point of view. Nothing's wrong with joking with each other, and teasing about the different perspectives, but there is simply no benefit in attacking each other. It doesn't help the debate that we are all here to take part in, period.

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/08/2013 12:16 PM

    As for the ACTUAL post, I'm with Riverman. The way that the Blazers are going to progress is not through drawing in a marquis star player that will magically make the difference, but instead by growing the best team of players and using a consistent system. We have our stars, and every single one of them, even Aldridge, has not yet reached his prime. As they grow, and we continue to fill in the roster with quality role players (like the Heat has done to support LBJ and DWade), our team is going to be dangerously good.

     

    But like you guys have already said, my biggest area of concern going forward is "what style are the Blazers going to develop in their hopes to be the best team they can be". I know that 3's are fun to watch, but historically it's not a winning strategy for a franchise, at least not consistently. As soon as we brought the bell into the training facility, putting so much stress on outside shots, I became a little worried about the Blazer's direction. Our focus MUST be on defense, getting stops, and letting that result in a fast-paced offense. That is far and away the most proven and successful strategy for ultimate victory in the NBA, and while it can certainly lead to alot of 3-point shots, they shouldn't be the focal point of the team; easy buckets (for 2 or 3 pts) created out of speed and turnovers should be.

     

    Hopefully now that we've bolstered our bench unit, and picked up a defensively-oriented stopgap at C until Meyers develops his defensive presence, we can shift the development focus from making shots to stopping our opponent's shots.

     

    A little food for thought that I heard recently: I believe it was the 07-08 Finals where Boston beat LA, right? That victory was largely credited to the fact that they had made a change in the rules regarding zone defense that year; Doc Rivers' Celtics used a hybrid zone D to shut down the Lakers that had never really been seen before, and since then it has been integrated to varying levels in practically every team's defensive schemes. Defensive strategy was literally the game-changer! Now think about the four teams each year that make it to Conference Finals; since that 07-08 season, all but THREE teams who've made the Conference Finals were the top-tier defensive teams of their respective season. This year, for example, the top 3 teams when it came to Defensive Efficiency were Indiana, Memphis, and San Antonio. The Heat were 7th, which is also pretty solid considering they were #1 on Offensive Efficiency as well. (For reference, Portland was 26th in D, and I think 15th in O)

     

    Offense can be an individuals game and he can help his team, but Defense is a team game, and you do NOT win an NBA title without Defense.

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/08/2013 1:08 PM

    Wow. This thread got crazy over one day. Thanks for bringing it back down to earth, 247.


    I'd also like to comment on growing into a contender. I think that concept has been killed by some of the less loyal players in the league. It's probably what makes so many fans want to create a Championship ship team overnight. They all think that the longest you can hold a player is 4-5 years. This is still my biggest complaint about LeBron: he made everyone think every free agent will bail on the team that put their faith in them. Dwight Howard and Ray Allen didn't help much either.


    Everyone talks about us only having one more year of LaMarcus before he's gone, and that may be what he wants, but he won't leave the Blazers high and dry. He'll go for some kind of sign and trade that brings in a piece that continues the forward growth of the team. It IS possible to start building a team and have a contender 3-4 years later. That's why Olshey (whose range of popularity is astounding on this board) kept saying he wouldn't sacrifice the future for the now. Remember what happened in 98? We had tons of star players, and even though we got to the conference finals, we lost, everyone left, and we have still not fully recovered to this day. 1st round of the playoffs this year, 2nd round next year, conference finals in 3 years, finals in 4? It's possible. Or completely overhaul the roster every year and hope that each random assortment of players can win a championship together? Less possible.

    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/08/2013 1:25 PM

    Word, Pickett. Totally agree that the likes of LBJ, Howard, Allen and even Nash have ruined most fan's concept of building a team with longevity. To be fair though, the player's union and player's greed for the almight dollar sign is as much to blame as any individual star player.

     

    It would be nice if more coverage was given to players who sacrifice to stay with their team, like Tim Duncan. Imagine what changes could've stirred in the league if Spurs had made a few ****ing freethrows!

     

    Sometimes it only takes a breeze to turn a boulder, much like how Lillard earning ROY this last year has opened national conversations  about the "1 and done" policy, vs a 4-year student athlete. Hopefully if CJ can have success this season as well, it will make that argument even stronger, and in turn make the NBA stronger. But I've definitely noticed a number of analysts on multiple venues talking about how the "1 and done" trend is bad for the athletes and bad for the sport. Stoke those fires, desk jockeys!

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. sedare
    sedare
    Posts: 53

    Posted 07/08/2013 3:12 PM

    Lebron is a needle mover. So is LMA. But its how the coaches use them that determine the scale of the potential of the OVERALL needle chart.

    The team has a given potential as it sits. Then you can increase or decrease the % of the position based on any changes. How much you are getting out of your team build as it stands. Here is an example.

    Char Hornets added Al Jefferson. This moves the needle. Not because of the player's abilities, but because of the overall success of the team and the likely hood to be more successful. However, not adding Al Jefferson, but simply changing the offensive design/system the team USES WHILE PLAYING would also increase the needle per say. Im trying to say there are 2 different ways to move the needle here, and would negate the dogmatic comment that LBJ moves the needle. Put him in a triangle offense with him as a wing/shooter... needle regresses.


    1. A team adds talent that takes it from 75% to 85% based on positional needs.

    2. A team changes the way they use the current roster to more efficiently play, take from 65% to 80%.

    Apply both methods, and you see more of what teams look for when changing a roster.

    Now when I hear a move the needle comment, I dont just look at the player.


    I look at how that player used to play in previous situations, how much of the success or failure was because of the said players abilites or inabilities, and if that person added to our roster will increase our teams ability to succeed as a TEAM.

    If you add LBJ to any team, its likely the needle will move.


    Then there is the 2nd part of this. 

    For the Hornets, 100% of the possible potential is simply making the playoffs. Adding LBJ, might give them a shot at eastern finals. Just adding LBJ wont be enough to max the SCALE of the needle for that team. Compare that to Heat. LBJ put them at 90% on a team scale that has championship potential at 100%. No team is at 100%, so with LBJ that 90% becomes the best team.




    This makes sense in my head, maybe with more stimulation from you guys asking me questions, I can refine this into something comprehensible.


    LOL :)

    I am a fan of standing by the team in my home town, Portland.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/08/2013 3:49 PM

    I think you're makin a great point Sedare, but if I'm understanding you correctly, then I think the Lakers might be an easier example to point out; Howard and Nash are without a doubt considered "needle movers", but they obviously didn't help the Lakers (WOOHOOO!!! HAPPY DAY!!!). The other person that critics are blaming for LA's poor season is the coach, because as you said, he didn't know how to properly utilize the players he had, no matter how much talent they came with. Maybe Ego can be considered the anti-talent, since it can derail even the best players and teams when it gets out of control... and that's one more reason to avoid D12 like the locker room cancer he is. And to avoid the Lakers in general.

     

    Speaking of, how amazing is it going to be this season to see Kobe just ROT at the bottom of the western conference? The Lakers have thrived by consistently overpaying for players, because no other team can match the Hollywood Dollar. I've always looked at that as the cheater's way to win, and I couldn't be happier it's finally caught up with them. Ironic, too, that the downfall of a team who spends too much is triggered by a particularly selfish player who wants something that they can't offer him. I LOVE IT.

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Just Tim
    Just Tim
    Posts: 36

    Posted 07/08/2013 5:24 PM

    Posted By Blazer247 on 07/08/2013 1:25 PM

    Word, Pickett. Totally agree that the likes of LBJ, Howard, Allen and even Nash have ruined most fan's concept of building a team with longevity. To be fair though, the player's union and player's greed for the almight dollar sign is as much to blame as any individual star player.

     

    It would be nice if more coverage was given to players who sacrifice to stay with their team, like Tim Duncan. Imagine what changes could've stirred in the league if Spurs had made a few ****ing freethrows!

     

    Sometimes it only takes a breeze to turn a boulder, much like how Lillard earning ROY this last year has opened national conversations  about the "1 and done" policy, vs a 4-year student athlete. Hopefully if CJ can have success this season as well, it will make that argument even stronger, and in turn make the NBA stronger. But I've definitely noticed a number of analysts on multiple venues talking about how the "1 and done" trend is bad for the athletes and bad for the sport. Stoke those fires, desk jockeys!


    Good refocus, Blazer247. I am also excited about CJ. I keep looking at the front picture of him and I LOVE  the fire in his eye.  He seems to have what it takes. Looking forward to Vegas league to see him play.

    I am a fan of cheering our hardworking Blazer team to a championship!
  1. sedare
    sedare
    Posts: 53

    Posted 07/08/2013 10:12 PM

    Pretty much hit it on the head. Players move needles just as much as the system in place can move a needle.


    Then, Moving the needle compared to what? Its like a gas gauge on a car. Its got E  - - - -  F

    So if one teams F is another teams 3/4 tank, then the team with the larger tank will have more potential. Then gaining the needle moving players are the ones that will bring the team closer to a greater full status.

    I am a fan of standing by the team in my home town, Portland.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/08/2013 11:58 PM

    Well, one gauge might be for a 10 gal tank and one for a 22 gal tank. One with a full tank might have faulty brakes or a flat tire. One could be a 12 cylinder Stanley Steamer touring car and one a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Towney...it goes on. I think Olshey will forever be tied to the "move the needle" phrase and it's an interesting way of looking at progress. Going for the needle moving factor didn't work for Payton or Malone on the Lakers, Shaq's stint with the Suns and again it's a long list. The whole point of my heading here is that great championship dynasties are special from top to bottom, but not necessarily filled with superstars that have bench gutting salaries. Definitely some interesting comments here
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/09/2013 1:59 AM

    Am I the only one that thinks of the Needle as a seismograph? As in Dwight Howard just landed in Houston and caused a 7.5 quake...


    That's kinda how I see it. Nolan Smith is on Boston's summer league team, and there's no activity showing on the seismograph. So I think what Neil means by "moving the needle" has more to do with impact and value than filling up the roster to a "full tank". Therefore, the move for T-Rob itself moves the needle because we acquired a player with a high ceiling and potentially answered our long-term questions at backup PF (maybe starter if LMA leaves but that's a whole other conversation). We added N.O.'s starting center to our roster, and that moves the needle simply because we acquired a starting center. Olshey wasn't going to bring in guys that would sit behind Freeland, Barton, and Claver at the end of the bench. Guys like that wouldn't shake the ground and make that needle move. If you look at it that way, his moves make a little more sense in correlation to his statement.

    I am a fan of
  1. sedare
    sedare
    Posts: 53

    Posted 07/09/2013 9:56 PM

    With that reasoning you can put drama as a key needle mover(aka Batum signing last FA season). Not sure that quite works.

    I am a fan of standing by the team in my home town, Portland.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/10/2013 11:11 AM

    I meant drawing attention for their value and impact to the team, not drawing paparazzi attention. Lol

    I am a fan of
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/11/2013 8:17 PM

    On the introduction video Neil Olshey pretty much echoed the heading of this thread. I was glad to hear that he didn't target "familiar" names or popular expensive free agents but rather went for the "Team as a collective" target. I'm pretty stoked about the age group of the vets he signed. Lopez being only 25 and coming off a career year without missing a game...not bad. I'm pretty sure his role was defined by his agent on the defensive emphasis he spoke about. All in all I think Stotts is relieved and ready to put this together. I won't even speculate about changing the roster until the trade deadline in Feb...glad this is over and ready for some Batumshakalaka!!!!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 07/11/2013 9:52 PM

    Stotts traded in his old chevy with a killer paint job, for a honda ridgeling that he can actually drive 25 miles without having to stop for gas or check under the hood.
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/11/2013 11:48 PM

    They say once you've tried power steering, you'll never go back!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 07/12/2013 7:28 AM


    Posted By commontongue on 07/07/2013 5:36 PM
    Teams and team defense win jewelry.


    Thank you CT.

    This is Portland. Portland is, and always will be a small market. As such, the model to follow for the building of Olshey's "sustainable success" is San Antonio. Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Boston...P'Town is NOT. Big name FAs, prima donnas that move needles? Not here. Not ever.

    Sustainable success most certainly must begin with the right pieces in the front office making decisions. Said it last year, and am about to say it again. I believe this franchise finally has that front office, and this team is on it's way. Patience Rose City, patience.


    I am a fan of players that play with PASSION and PRIDE
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 07/12/2013 9:45 AM

    Well put BDawg
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. sedare
    sedare
    Posts: 53

    Posted 07/12/2013 11:38 AM

    Did someone get banned? Or did my browser throwup lastnights dinner?

    I am a fan of standing by the team in my home town, Portland.
  1. sedare
    sedare
    Posts: 53

    Posted 07/12/2013 11:40 AM

    Odd bug. Anyways 2 posts just disappeared above that one.... AND OH YEAH. NO EDIT.


    I like Bdawg's post also. Realizing we are a small market is humbling. I dont like getting looked over when a top FA ignores Portland, but I got used to it growing up, and nothing will change that.

    I am a fan of standing by the team in my home town, Portland.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 07/12/2013 11:52 AM

    Nicely put BDawg.

     

    What disappeared though?

    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 07/12/2013 1:47 PM

    But when the team gets to deep play off runs and the title conversation. Good players will want to come here. Who wouldn't love to play for San Antonio? BDawg is right that it's about patience for sustainable success. And I'm piggy backing by saying it gets more sustainable when big FAs want to be in Portland. Back in the Drexler, Porter, Kersey days, Charles Barkley actually approached the GM and said I want to win a championship with Portland. For some reason they didn't want him, but the point is he was one of the biggest stars of his day and he wanted to play for Portland because they were a team that could have won a title.

    I am a fan of
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