Who are the Point Guards better than Lillard RIGHT NOW?
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  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 11/20/2012 2:28 PM



    After Lillard's career night against the Rockets, it got me thinking. How many point guards are better then him, right now? The answer is surprisingly not many.

    Better Now:
    Chris Paul
    Russell Westbrook
    Rajon Rondo
    Deron Williams
    Kyrie Irving
    Tony Parker

    Am I missing anyone? I know Derrick Rose makes this list if he's healthy and it's more of a debate if Ricky Rubio is healthy as well, but neither is suited up. Going by my list, we already have the seventh best point guard in the game. Not bad for a rook who only has 10 games under his belt.
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  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/20/2012 2:35 PM

    rubio is over rated in my eyes 
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  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 11/20/2012 2:50 PM

    I don't think it's a coincidence Ricky had the Wolves in the playoff hunt while he was healthy and then they went straight down the drain as soon as he went out. He may not be the scorer that Lillard is, but there's no denying his importance to the Wolves.
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 11/20/2012 4:53 PM

    Damien is definitely in the top ten. I'd agree with that list but wait until he's been matched up with those he hasn't played yet. He may even be top 5 after the fact. I'd like to see how he plays against Deron Williams, Felton, Rondo, Jennings, Kyrie  and some he hasn't faced yet. I'd like to see how he fares against Andre Miller as well, not sure he's at Dre's level yet. He outplayed Nash, Blake and LIn for sure already.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Siccolo
    Siccolo
    Posts: 1250

    Posted 11/20/2012 4:55 PM

    Well, you can take out Kyrie since he is out for weeks haha

    but when he is healthy, i still might take Damian over him. Damian is a better long range shooter. Irving is avg less assists and more turn overs


    BUT

    I dont have league pass so I dont usually see Kyrie play so I have no right to judge. Im just looking at stats for him aha

    I am a fan of This Quote "One Love. One Heart. One Human race."
  1. schwabbii
    schwabbii
    Posts: 205

    Posted 11/20/2012 4:59 PM

    I think it really depends on what you need for your team. For instance, Mike Conley is an excellent point guard but he also doesn't exactly need to overpower a game like Damian might have to at some points of a game. Don't get me wrong though, I think Dame is the perfect fit for this team. He's exactly what we need. 

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  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/20/2012 5:42 PM

    Rubio is not as good as Damon,I don't think Kyrie Erving is either.That guy is overrated. And to be honest I don't wanna jump the gun and say he's better then westbrook,But I think he's better then Westbrook.That guy is alittle overated in my opinion 2
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  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/20/2012 8:58 PM

    kyrie was totally clutch all last season how is he over rated? 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 11/21/2012 12:07 AM

    I'm voting for Chauncy Billups. Even though he hasn't played since 2011, there he is on the All-Star ballot. It's so easy with the internet these days. Just login to NBA.com and click... Buh.. buh.. Billups!
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/21/2012 10:59 AM

    He's Overrated cause be plays on a Crap team.Inflated stats homey
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/21/2012 1:34 PM

    so then that leads me to say that lillards overrated too inflated stats 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/21/2012 1:36 PM

    well at least by your logic 

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  1. Blazersfan1234
    Blazersfan1234
    Posts: 33

    Posted 11/21/2012 4:53 PM

    I think for sure that Lillard is better than Parker and possibly Rubio.  

    @CurvyChloe right now Westbrook's EFF is 20.0 while Lillard's EFF is 17.2 so as of right now I don"t think that Lillard is better but I think that possibly by next year that Lillard will be a better player. 

    I am a fan of
  1. ryanr3869
    ryanr3869
    Posts: 1

    Posted 11/21/2012 5:54 PM

    The only point guards that are better than Lillard now are Paul, D-Will, and Westbrook.

  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/21/2012 8:56 PM

    Thats actually very stupid to say "by My logic" If you look at the team rosters you'll see the Blazers have two players averaging over 20 points-Batum and Aldridge,Wesley Matthews also averages 16.1 per game.

    Cleveland on the other hand has  only 3 other players besides erving averaging double figures.Erving averages wayyyy more shot attempts then they other players on the squad and he averages 5 assists a game which is terrible for a point guard.So he's basically just gunning on a bad team. Yeah  Blazers aren't a good team either but they still have other players who demand the ball and get shot attempts. Cleveland's second leading scorer is a rookie Dion Waiters. Granted if the blazers had more ballers lillards scoring average would go down,but cleveland doesn't have 1,not 1 other player even worth mentioning,while the blazers have 2 blazers in Batum and aldridge who could be all-stars

    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/21/2012 11:56 PM

    yea but that could be because we have no bench lolol ever thought about that 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/21/2012 11:58 PM

    we only have 5 players consistantly contributing so my point still stands the bench is good for 4 or 5 points 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/22/2012 12:02 AM

    if we had a solid bench I doubt our whole starting line up would be as efficient as it is right now 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/22/2012 12:07 AM

    oh don't get me wrong though I am a firm believer that lillard is the real deal though and that batum is gonna be the man 
    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 11/22/2012 12:40 AM

    I think John Wall is a better PG than Kyrie Irving (better assist man anyway) and I still don't think either one is a better option to run a team than Lillard. He's definitely a top 10 (closer to top 5) PG. But more than that, he's at the helm of probably the best starting lineup in the NBA right now.

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  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/22/2012 4:51 AM

    True But cleveland has nothing,no bench,no starters,nothing period
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BDawg
    BDawg
    Posts: 1593

    Posted 11/22/2012 8:44 AM

    Great thread D!  I would suggest asking the question, " if YOU were an NBA GM and/or team owner and Lillard was YOUR starter, which of the above players would you be willing to trade him for (straight across)? "  Forget about the reality of matching salaries and making numbers work for the sake of this discussion.

     

    Paul...peaking, if not already peaked and injury prone

    Westbrook...when scoring, hurts his team

    Rondo...character issues, on and off the court bordering at times on distraction

    Williams...hard to find flaw here, but wouldn't trade Dame for him

    Irving...like Williams, no obvious flaws and younger with more upside.  Some health issues early in career

    Parker...last one on this list I would move Dame for.  On downside of career and injury prone.  An aging player dependent upon quickness and explosiveness.  No upside.

    Dragic...intriguing prospect, and the closest thing to Dame out there in terms of total package.  Not the finisher Lillard is however.  Still...no trade, no question.

     

    In Lillard, the Blazers have the ONLY PG in the league with the unique combination of youth, health, talent, and character/work ethic.  Celebrate Blazer fans, there isn't an NBA GM out there who isn't aware of what we have here wearing #0.  Barring injury, a lock for ROY. 

     

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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 11/22/2012 9:31 AM

    I think Dragic made a case for being above Lillard last night

    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. B-razors
    B-razors
    Posts: 4

    Posted 11/22/2012 9:41 AM

    I agree with a lot of these comments and think Dame WILL BE great but still has some growing to do. He's only played a handful of games and his assist numbers continue to drop and his turnovers seem to be slowly rising. Will he be a great point gaurd? No doubt. Is he right now? Definitely for a rookie. Is his upside tremendous? Yes. Is he a top 5 pg in the league? Definitely not yet. He's a clutch player who can hit the big shots, a great scorer who has tremendous upside like I said but he def has some growing to do less he average his college stats (24.5 pts ppg and 4.5apg) which isn't the greatest for a pg that has one all star in LA and another possible in Batum. Lets see some good scoring WITH decent assists and LESS turnovers. Then he'll def be top 5.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 11/22/2012 11:32 AM

    Posted By riverman on 11/22/2012 9:31 AM

    I think Dragic made a case for being above Lillard last night


    Not sure how.

    Dragic: 15 pts, 8 asts, 3 stls

    Lillard: 24 pts, 3 asts, 1 stl


    To me it looks like neither guy played effective defense. The Blazers that got stopped were LaMarcus, Nic, Wesley, THE ENTIRE BENCH.


    So if we're talking about who is a better PG offensively, I don't really see your argument. If we talk about who is a better PG defensively, I still don't see your argument.


    Yes, Dragic was the PG on the winning team, but I don't think that makes him a better PG.

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  1. B-razors
    B-razors
    Posts: 4

    Posted 11/22/2012 12:15 PM


    Not sure how.

    Dragic: 15 pts, 8 asts, 3 stls

    Lillard: 24 pts, 3 asts, 1 stl


    To me it looks like neither guy played effective defense. The Blazers that got stopped were LaMarcus, Nic, Wesley, THE ENTIRE BENCH.


    So if we're talking about who is a better PG offensively, I don't really see your argument. If we talk about who is a better PG defensively, I still don't see your argument.


    Yes, Dragic was the PG on the winning team, but I don't think that makes him a better PG.



    I agree and disagree with both of you. Lillard played a great game shooting wise but his 3 assists for a point gaurd shows lillard wasn't hitting guys where they needed it (esp when he played 35 min) and couldn't get his teams offense rolling. If you as a point gaurd can't get your whole team rolling, you WILL NOT win many games. 8 assists shows dragic was doing a much better job hitting guys. And lillards 6 turnovers to 3 assists for a pg?? Ouch! (someone was playing defense and it wasn't lillard). Dragic had 8 assists to 1 turnover. Not to mention dragic had 15pts 8 assists and 3 steals with only 1 turnover in ONLY 26 minutes whereas lillard played for 35. You factor in 9 more minutes of play and dragic would of had 20 pts 10 assists and 4 steals. Thats a great BLOWOUT of a game where dragic wasnt needed all game. Lillard is still a rookie though and I have high expectations he'll just continue to improve. But just looking at that game, dragic showed via his minutes played he was the better pg.
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 11/22/2012 1:00 PM

    In Lillards defense, how many blown opportunities were the result of the recipient of the pass turning the ball either over or missing usually made shots. Lillard did exactly what he did at Weber State. When his teamates were off, he wasnt.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/22/2012 2:17 PM

    Dragic couldn't be better then lillard if he tried,thats like saying Marco Jaric is better then Chris paul.lol
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 11/22/2012 2:34 PM

    lol
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. B-razors
    B-razors
    Posts: 4

    Posted 11/22/2012 3:31 PM

    It's easy to be biased. Look at the stats. I can just throw around names that are rediculous as well. Lillards gonna be great, I live near the portland area and support the blazers but lets be reasonable. He's showing HUGE potential but he's 62nd in the league for pg's for assist to turnover ratio. 62nd!!!!!! Thats just pg's! Yes a great player but def has room to improve and you CANNOT say he's that low just cause of his teammates. Dragic on the othrr hand is 10th on this rank and is only averaging 3 less pts per game.

    Who'd I rather have as a GM? Lillard no question. 1st year in the league putying up these stats shows tremendous upside but if your talking who's better RIGHT NOW? If they were never to improve and keep the same stats I'd take dragic in a heartbeat.
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/23/2012 10:04 AM

    You'd take Dragic? Well good for you,now we all know why your on a message board and not working in a gm's office
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 11/23/2012 12:43 PM

    Im interested in knowing who the other 61 are. I wasnt even aware that we had that many. Worth mentioning anyway.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 11/23/2012 2:45 PM

    That's exactly what I saw, common. 3 or 4 of lillard's turnovers were because people weren't where they should've been, and the pass sailed out of bounds. Also, I'll tell you why his assists were low: LaMarcus shot 5-15, Wesley shot 4-11. If Gortat and/or Morris had a bad shooting night Dragic's numbers would've been a lot worse. You can argue that Dragic was setting his guys up better, but Lillard hit an open man several times and the shooter just blew it.

    I am a fan of
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 11/23/2012 5:33 PM

    Lillard had 1 assist at halftime when the game was already getting out of reach, also had 4 turnovers by halftime, Dragic ran an offense that blew us out of the building. Do I think Lillard is ultimately more talented than Dragic? Yes I do. Do I think he's the better pt guard at this pt in his career? Not yet. Lillard lost the one on one battle with Dragic in the game. Dragic broke his defense down over and over. In the second half Lillard shot well and got his 24 but looking at the whole game. Dragic won the night. Lillard was slow defending Dragic all night. Dragic didn't have to score 24, he had 8 assists and sat on the bench for long stretches. I love Lillard and believe someday he'll be the best pt guard in the NBA but he wasn't in Arizona.
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. knorton181
    knorton181
    Posts: 264

    Posted 11/23/2012 5:44 PM

    Just saying, the whole "yeah but the Blazer starters are averaging more because our bench sucks" argument is probably the worst argument I've ever heard of. No, our starters are good, our becnh would only lift the overall team numbers.. How would that have anything to do with the starters.... You lost me on that, and really think about it before you dodge to reply
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  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/23/2012 8:01 PM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 11/23/2012 10:04 AM
    You'd take Dragic? Well good for you,now we all know why your on a message board and not working in a gm's office

    honestly your acting like dragic sucks I would honestly put him over lillard right now as a pure point lillard is doing great though at mixing scoring with assists but his assists are going down each game and his turnovers are fairly high but thats to expect for a rookie but lillards upside could be higher then dragics 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/23/2012 8:17 PM

    Posted By knorton181 on 11/23/2012 5:44 PM
    Just saying, the whole "yeah but the Blazer starters are averaging more because our bench sucks" argument is probably the worst argument I've ever heard of. No, our starters are good, our becnh would only lift the overall team numbers.. How would that have anything to do with the starters.... You lost me on that, and really think about it before you dodge to reply

    yea but it would also take minutes away from our starters no other starting line up has every player averaging around 30 minutes a game meaning we probably wouldn't have 3 players in our starting line up in the top 20 ppg 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 11/24/2012 1:35 AM

    Paul...peaking, if not already peaked and injury prone

    Westbrook...when scoring, hurts his team

    Rondo...character issues, on and off the court bordering at times on distraction

    Williams...hard to find flaw here, but wouldn't trade Dame for him

    Irving...like Williams, no obvious flaws and younger with more upside.  Some health issues early in career

    Parker...last one on this list I would move Dame for.  On downside of career and injury prone.  An aging player dependent upon quickness and explosiveness.  No upside.

    Dragic...intriguing prospect, and the closest thing to Dame out there in terms of total package.  Not the finisher Lillard is however.  Still...no trade, no question.

     

    In Lillard, the Blazers have the ONLY PG in the league with the unique combination of youth, health, talent, and character/work ethic.  Celebrate Blazer fans, there isn't an NBA GM out there who isn't aware of what we have here wearing #0.  Barring injury, a lock for ROY.



    Solid post.  When you ask what PG you'd trade Lillard for, the options don't seem so clear, or attractive.  It forces people to think about the trade-offs and adds much needed perspective to an otherwise subjective sports geek discussion about who the best PG is.
  1. Blazer Fanatic
    Blazer Fanatic
    Posts: 758

    Posted 11/24/2012 1:58 AM

    Posted By B-razors on 11/22/2012 9:41 AM
    He's only played a handful of games and his assist numbers continue to drop and his turnovers seem to be slowly rising...

    Is he a top 5 pg in the league? Definitely not yet.

    28 pts, 8 ast, 4 reb, 0 turnovers versus Twolves

    As for stacking up against the NBA's other PGs after 12 games:

    Currently tied for 3rd in PPG with Monte Ellis who is really a SG playing alongside Brandon Jennings

    6th in FG%

    10th in 3PT FG%

    1st in 3PTs Made

    9th in FT attempted and made

    20th in assists(72) and 19th in AssistsPG with 6

    4th in minutes played

    Tied for 6th with Westbrook for most turnovers with 39

    16th in StealPG and 17th in steals

     

    Playing with Wes, Batum, and LA, those are some pretty sick numbers for a rookie PG.  I don't care what rank people want to give him, he is the clear ROY, and I wouldn't trade him for any PG in the league at this point.

     

     

     

  1. tfal930
    tfal930
    Posts: 5

    Posted 11/24/2012 8:25 AM

    Nobody mentioned Steve Nash yet. I know he is still old, but what he accomplished in this league cannot be ignored. Parker, Rondo, Westbrook, Rose, Nash, D will, Chris paul, Rubio, and Dragic are still better than Lillard pg wise. Scoring wise Lillard can out score anyone of those guys. J wall and Irving are great guards but this is Lillard's first year and no pg put up these type of numbers in their first year.

  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/24/2012 9:24 AM

    Drajic was in the league for 4 years before he even averaged more then 7 points a game.The Guy Blows chunks. I mean look at his body.The last time I saw a body like that It had a apple stuffed in its mouth and was roasting over a open flame. Come on lets stop comparing him to lillard who is a complete baller. Drajic is really nothing but a Benhu Udrich twin
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 11/24/2012 9:50 AM

    haha...just had to laugh at that one Chloe...Lillard destroyed Ridnour, that's for sure!
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/24/2012 11:57 AM

    Lillard put so many moves on Ridnour,he was dribbling circles around him,by the time the game was over Ridnour thought he was trapped in a revolving door
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/24/2012 1:41 PM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 11/24/2012 9:24 AM
    Drajic was in the league for 4 years before he even averaged more then 7 points a game.The Guy Blows chunks. I mean look at his body.The last time I saw a body like that It had a apple stuffed in its mouth and was roasting over a open flame. Come on lets stop comparing him to lillard who is a complete baller. Drajic is really nothing but a Benhu Udrich twin

    yea so was nash to be honest and he wasn't even considered to be a top pg like dragic who is now being considered in some top lists so whats your point? 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/25/2012 8:56 AM

    My Point should be Obvious dude. Dragic blows!! Come off it already the guy averaged like 7 points a game before this year. You mean to say your pumped cause he's finally featured on some lists after his 5th year balling.
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  1. riverman
    riverman
    Posts: 1431

    Posted 11/25/2012 10:21 AM

    Lillard is a rare rookie. Very few pt guards have stats like he's put up in the first year, we get that. Billups is an example of a late bloomer who became an allstar and won a ring. Lillard is also a rare rookie in that he finished college before going pro. I shows in his maturity. Some of these guys didn't get the 4 year hoops education you get when you finish college. I, for one, am glad he did. Leonard didn't and the rust shows. Lillard is actually Batum's age or close to it...Meyers Leonard can't even buy a beer yet. The difference in maturity is obvious. Hey..I'm celebrating the fact that we won the lottery with both these guys but NOBODY expected Lillard to come out and break rookie records left and right. I hope he drops 50 on Felton when we play the knicks
    I am a fan of A team that plays like Tower of Power on a big stage on a good night
  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/25/2012 11:14 AM

    Posted By Curvychloe on 11/25/2012 8:56 AM
    My Point should be Obvious dude. Dragic blows!! Come off it already the guy averaged like 7 points a game before this year. You mean to say your pumped cause he's finally featured on some lists after his 5th year balling.

    point gaurds don't have to score big there like the quarter back for basketball there main job is to facilitate at least the true pg's I think your getting mixed up with the abundance of scoring point gaurds this league has today and he played behind nash of course his numbers ain't gonna be rediculous when nash is eating up alot of the playing time 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. D_pickett
    D_pickett
    Posts: 726

    Posted 11/25/2012 11:41 AM

    Well Chloe also brought up a great point. Dragic and Lillard might be close to even right now, but Dragic is playing the best basketball he's ever gonna play, it being his 5th year in the league. This is just the beginning of Damian's first season. So if we're talking about who we'd rather have, Dame all the way.

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  1. BLASER
    BLASER
    Posts: 757

    Posted 11/25/2012 3:40 PM

    naw dragic can still grow and I won't lie damians doing good but to say dragic isn't good is wrong and who knows it could be fools gold with lillard I hope not but then again players like tyreke had crazy rookie years and there numbers dropped so lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet 

    I am a fan of defensive man beasts
  1. Curvychloe
    Curvychloe
    Posts: 610

    Posted 11/25/2012 8:50 PM

     Dragic He ain't good my man,he's 2012's marco jaric.Why you on such a dragic kick? Is there anyway you can just admit Lillard is wayyy  better the Dragic will ever be. I mean Dragic is really nothing more then a human Pinyata if you think about it
    I am a fan of Sexy Blondes at courtside
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